Tools and such

[William66]

Within the grimories, there has to be a reason why we use a sword, why not a knife? Virgin parchment paper(calf/goatskin), why not normal paper? Many people fail these rituals, i’m suspecting people who post their experience, they haven’t gone ”by the book” like a purist, maybe it would change if they went by the book step by step. Ofcourse it’s hard to get those items, took me 8-10 month to gather them, if it took me almost a year to get the tools and incenses, think about the people doing these rituals 800 years ago, man it must have taken years to gather them. Nowdays we have internet to purchase literally snake blood, why do people not go by the book? Maybe the experience would be diffrent?

Just something i wanted to talk about(mention).

 

[KjEno186]

like a purist

Like, I don't know, Austin Osman Spare?

Or Aleister Crowley, who made up his own stuff, used erroneously translated grimoires, etc., and it still worked?

Does magic not work for Tibetan shamans? Do Vodoun priests not practice necromancy?

There is a more reasonable way of looking at things. Some people are naturally gifted. They are like those child prodigy musicians that most of us enjoy watching on YouTube. And then there are those who are not, shall we say, gifted, like a lot of us who struggle for years to get those chord progressions on a guitar working.

If having a lot of toys makes you feel like a "real" magician, then please do enjoy them. But if you're going to look down on others who won't be "purists," I'm going to call you out on it for having lost the plot.

 

[Yazata]

Within the grimories, there has to be a reason why we use a sword, why not a knife? Virgin parchment paper(calf/goatskin), why not normal paper? Many people fail these rituals, i’m suspecting people who post their experience, they haven’t gone ”by the book” like a purist, maybe it would change if they went by the book step by step. Ofcourse it’s hard to get those items, took me 8-10 month to gather them, if it took me almost a year to get the tools and incenses, think about the people doing these rituals 800 years ago, man it must have taken years to gather them. Nowdays we have internet to purchase literally snake blood, why do people not go by the book? Maybe the experience would be diffrent?

Just something i wanted to talk about(mention).

The process of making / acquiring them is what gives / gave these tools their meaning.
If you are just going to buy a dagger or a belt made out of lion's skin there's not really anything special about it (in my opinion).
As for goatskin parchment, that might have something to do with the stubbornrs of the goat (and the demons associated with it). By using that, you show that you rule over it. I guess.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Just something i wanted to talk about(mention).

Me too. I love this stuff.

Within the grimories, there has to be a reason why we use a sword, why not a knife?

One perspective I have found is that the sword actually threatens aerial spirits. While they can't technically be harmed, striking at the air causes them "pain." A knife or any other type of sharp weapon could have the same effect, but in terms of symbolism, the sword is a symbol of power and authority. Think steel = iron = Mars, which gives courage. In historical terms, they are even harder to get than today. Swords in the medieval days were just carried by anyone, and reflect a certain social status. Plus it can't just be any old beat up sword - the magus must have put some effort forth in crafting his Art, which the spirits will respect. Spirit hierarchies are often militant in structure, so there are ideas to play with there.

Virgin parchment paper(calf/goatskin), why not normal paper?

Paper is cheap and more disposable, for one, so it lacks significance in terms of perspective. The parchment must be gathered by the sorcerer, in some cases by killing the animal and then flaying it, stretching it, drying it, etc. ; perhaps on a special day - a religious one.

Many people fail these rituals, i’m suspecting people who post their experience, they haven’t gone ”by the book” like a purist, maybe it would change if they went by the book step by step.

It's like an obstacle course, right? First you have to face the discouragement of the challenge. I think "purists" only exist in this modern era. While I have read warning in the old books about this or that, I think that individual practitioners were probably a lot more flexible and creative than our hindsight indicates at first glance.

 

[William66]

As for goatskin parchment, that might have something to do with the stubbornrs of the goat (and the demons associated with it). By using that, you show that you rule over it. I guess.

I did not know that, what a info thanks!

 

[Öwnchef]

You cannot interchange a sword with a dagger. Absolutely not.
So stick to the funny manual closely if you are not exactly knowing what you do.

 

[William66]

But if you're going to look down on others who won't be "purists," I'm going to call you out on it for having lost the plot.

I do NOT look down on others, i don’t call myself 100% purist, even if i did, i respect everyones methods, i want to learn and open conversation for knowledge, whats the point looking down on someone like that ?

 

[William66]

shamans? Do Vodoun priests not practice necromancy?

There is a more reasonable way of looking at things. Some people are naturally gifted.

True this.

 

[William66]

The process of making / acquiring them is what gives / gave these tools their meaning.

Yes indeed(i’m ashamed to say this but i did not make my own tools, i bought them, but the wand was bought from Aaron litch practicing solomonic magic) Good guy for sure.

 

[William66]

One perspective I have found is that the sword actually threatens aerial spirits.

Yes this is true, they fear iron, especially sharp iron(stephen skinner said this in an interview too).

I think that individual practitioners were probably a lot more flexible and creative than our hindsight indicates at first glance

Yes i would guess this.
Grimorium verum.
Heptameron.
Solomonic whatever you want to call it.
Elucidation of necromany(close to heptameron), all these grimories require such told like sword incenses and such.
These are high status grimories which makes me wonder why? IMO there is always a reason.

 

[William66]

Well for gifted people lol, my sister is gifted. I cannot contact a spirit sent by a higher one, but since i cannot communicate alone, i use my sister by playing Ouija, she is the medium YET she has nothing to do with magic, knows nothing, yet the answers was real by testing it the day and hour, Planet and such. I got suprised, but not that suprised since i believe in these things already).

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Frater Chassan in Gateways through Stone and Circle went all out on full grimoire tools, attire weapons and invocations and evocations.
I recommend it.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Within the grimories, there has to be a reason why we use a sword, why not a knife? Virgin parchment paper(calf/goatskin), why not normal paper? Many people fail these rituals, i’m suspecting people who post their experience, they haven’t gone ”by the book” like a purist, maybe it would change if they went by the book step by step. Ofcourse it’s hard to get those items, took me 8-10 month to gather them, if it took me almost a year to get the tools and incenses, think about the people doing these rituals 800 years ago, man it must have taken years to gather them. Nowdays we have internet to purchase literally snake blood, why do people not go by the book? Maybe the experience would be diffrent?

Just something i wanted to talk about(mention).

There is, on the other hand, a topic called Feral Scorcery.

Imagine a cross between an arts and crafts supply hoarder, and a magician. That's Feral Sorcery.

That or using your own skill, materials and imagination.

 

[William66]

Frater Chassan in Gateways through Stone and Circle went all out on full grimoire tools, attire weapons and invocations and evocations.
I recommend it.

I will look the book up, thanks.

 

[William66]

There is, on the other hand, a topic called Feral Scorcery.

Imagine a cross between an arts and crafts supply hoarder, and a magician. That's Feral Sorcery.

Can you elaborate more in an easier way? I did not get this since my English is not 100%,

 

[Öwnchef]

Can you elaborate more in an easier way? I did not get this since my English is not 100%,

• A craft-tool collector and
• an art-supply collector and
• a magician ...

... have sex. They have a baby together. They call it Wild Witch.

My English is down to 10% tho.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Ownchef nailed it.

 

[8Lou1]

One time, long ago when ning was used by tavistock, a warlock from the west of usa had a talk with little nitwit lou. I cared as he was the odd one out, always taking the blame. I gave him a way out as he couldnt believe people care about him. But anyways he said to me, look what the cat caughed up. I have been looking for a meaning for years, thanks mr chef.

 

[stalkinghyena]

These are high status grimories which makes me wonder why? IMO there is always a reason.

I keep wondering why myself, and I have decided to never lose the question. With grimoires (and everything actually) I tried to take occult writers at their word, and was baffled, even irritated. I went the academic historical route and felt the same, and the history is often fragmented and gives me more questions than answers. The other way, which I found is trickier, is to listen to the grimoire itself, as if it had its own voice. I think all three ways are helpful if one can cultivate useful perspectives.

Yes indeed(i’m ashamed to say this but i did not make my own tools, i bought them, but the wand was bought from Aaron litch practicing solomonic magic) Good guy for sure.

IMO if the tool is a thing of value, then it doesn't matter where you got it from. Maybe it finds you. When I was a child I found my first magical knife in a gutter and it was a companion to me. That's not very high status, but I guess you got to start somewhere.

 

[Öwnchef]

Everybody has two fathers. Later you learn you also had two mothers. Your grandmother decided if you live or die. Your mother-mother obeyed. Your father-father gave the seed. Your second father is the magician-father. He was there during your birth. He is the path-master. The Djuringa.