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How to find other practitioners

MerikhS

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Hey all,

I was wondering how to find persons also interested in occult and so on, in person? I know for example IOT, but do not know any other distinct group. And I am specifically talking about meeting in-person, as with online forums you do not really see who are you talking to, which for me limits immensely the credibility of what the person is talking about
 

AbammonTheGreat

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Go to the girly witch tok markets i meet alot of magical artisans and other practitioners at those. Its usually a lot of crystals and witchy tea blends but I can usually find stuff I like and its how I get connected with my local occult community. I'll run into everything from new age reiki healers to hardcore traditional grimoirists at them.
 

dzb10035

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If you are in a city that isn't too right leaning, then found an occult group and be very transparent about what the group's events are about. I did this and advertised discussion events that basically discussed stuff directly about occult topics such as Goetia, rituals, Golden Dawn, etc. The people that came to these events were the ones who directly knew about the topics or even practised. It is the quickest way to get the relevant people into your sphere imho
 

angeldmort

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One of my biggest obstacles over the years was meeting people who are very vocal about their practice, their high status, their skills, but who insist they can't teach anything without my making a huge commitment to "apprentice" or serve them in some way, and who over time then show themselves to just be deeply unethical and basically... just hot messes. And they get the most basic things wrong - and I'm not talking about things that might be a difference in path, but in basic knowledge like which sign is a fire sign, which seems to be pretty universal across all paths.

It has left me frustrated and with a deep mistrust that all of this is just fake nonsense used by abusers and manipulators. I very much want to find people who I can respect AND who know about this stuff, but I have no idea how to do that, and my concerns themselves now seem to offend.

How did other people get past this?
 

Rynnshng

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One of my biggest obstacles over the years was meeting people who are very vocal about their practice, their high status, their skills, but who insist they can't teach anything without my making a huge commitment to "apprentice" or serve them in some way, and who over time then show themselves to just be deeply unethical and basically... just hot messes. And they get the most basic things wrong - and I'm not talking about things that might be a difference in path, but in basic knowledge like which sign is a fire sign, which seems to be pretty universal across all paths.

It has left me frustrated and with a deep mistrust that all of this is just fake nonsense used by abusers and manipulators. I very much want to find people who I can respect AND who know about this stuff, but I have no idea how to do that, and my concerns themselves now seem to offend.

How did other people get past this?
Hello~ The frustration you feel is in its own right an initiation into the honest truth of the occult. There is a lot of glamour, pretense and posturing - making claims that cannot be substantiated about magical prowess, and when tested, fall dismally flat. I began my occult journey at 12, (I'm now 47) and have spoken online or interacted offline with a lot of people who have made a lot of claims. This includes in other spheres of life as well. My reply here is based on direct experiences.

In Australia, August 2014, I launched the Australian Satanic Organization of Victoria (ASoV) which intended to be an operating satanic group that would give each member a turn to choose a location to run an event and practice their own form of Satanism. Thus, moving through the experiences they desired to have, so they could evolve beyond them. I went to meet face-to-face and interview about 25 or so adherents who claimed to want to be part of our 'Nexion' and ended up with 6 possible attendees. It took us three years to have six 'Meets' during which the failings of some individuals to organise even the basic skeleton of a camping trip alone that facilitates the environment for occult teaching or ritual practices - became abundantly clear. (If you cannot organise a camping trip many people manage just fine, should you be calling for Thor to possess you?)

Of all of those online calling for something like the ASoV to be created offline, none came forth to make it happen, so I had to make it happen myself. Naturally, this was criticized ;) Of those that clamoured to be part online, most were deluded or unsuited offline. Of those that made it through, it was an oft-painful ride. We completed a Black Mass at Mount Franklin (which intelligence agencies love to crow about), but it was arduous going just to prepare the ASoV enough for that. And all of those Meets, were simply basic tests to determine who I could work with - that was not for me the actual magic but a means to find people to do genuine magic with. The ASoV, was handed over to WHC in 2017, and I left it, as I did not see a group with which I felt comfortable doing sincere ritual magick, but the experiences had were very informative for my understanding of group dynamics and the claims/limitations of human beings. Nonetheless, each of those involved also came away with a rich experience to dwell upon as a means to change them.

I also called out the O9A (Order of Nine Angles) when over time I found them far less than the 'Grand Masters' they purported to be and akin to spiteful children* - and spent decades investigating the claims of the Septenary Tradition. Seeing these 'masters' differently was ultimately more valuable than entertaining their claims as masters, and the journey to analyse the Septenary Tradition, more valuable than the conclusions I drew. Often, it's about the journey not the destination, and if you can learn to love the journey more than the destination, that's a great magic trick in its own right. I emphasise, decades, as my commitment to ONA (not the O9A) still stands, so I know the feeling of dedication to an Oz only to feel the chagrin when seeing behind the curtain what one has been worshipping. ONA has had multiple leadership groups (DM/RM). As has O9A (JS/JH). As ONA does now (BX/M). And my commitment was to the philosophy more than many of the people. It's complicated.

The world, and not just the occult, is full of fake nonsense by abusers and manipulators - but determining who they are is itself a skill required to develop, that can only be developed through interactions with them. I used to have a saying about how to test a person: 'you have to fight alongside them, fight with them, and get them drunk' to see what kind of character they really have. In fighting with them you know their convictions, in fighting with them you know their level of spite, and in getting them drunk you see them without many inhibitions that the conscious mind uses to control our perception of who they are.

But technology helps disguise things, no different to ancient illusionists using sleight of hand to grift, just more widespread and in the hands of many more who can pretend to be whoever they want to be. This happens offline too, and face-to-face is no determination of being able to discern the truth we think we can, because if they can fool us online then they may be able to fool us in person which only proves their magic is in fact, successful, even if it's not the kind we expected. Whereupon I can cite the existence of Government and the State and the Institutions that prop up the world as it appears. Testing people is one way to reveal what they can actually do vs. what they say they can do, yes. But the better approach is to constantly test ourselves. Dealing with the human condition of waiting to be impressed and disappointed when you are not, is not just owing to the actions of others - but to us, too, and suggests analysing where that expectation we expect has been constructed.

You are certainly not alone in wondering about the veracity of occult practitioners. How to get past human nature itself seemingly designed to deceive (others and oneself) in order to gain or protect the ego from a reality it doesn't want to face? I don't think you can, human beings are adept liars, but this in itself is an important discovery. Disillusion is a part of the Occult - the hidden - because it indicates the Illusions you had, have fractured. Which in itself is a good thing, for self-respect and self-preservation as being Cynical is a valuable trait to have in dealing with human beings, let alone one's claiming to have magickal powers. In 30 something years, I've never seen a human being demonstrate magic in the form of ESP, levitation, reiki and a dizzying list of other crafts, nor gain Immortality as so many seem to be seeking but therein lies prickly philosophy of definition - as people do cause change depending on their recklessness, delusion or simple interaction with things. Simply by being who they are and doing what they do has effects, intended or unintended, and whether that is magic or not should remain an open question.

So, I feel, the truth of the matter is, what you are seeing is more accurately how it is, and that can be depressing when you realise the facts behind the glamour. It is my view, that in speaking about it, what you want, putting yourself out there, like this, like you have, that Synchronicity, will guide you to someone (or guide someone to you) who you can work with. Though often, that guidance will take you back to yourself after some experiences which consolidate your understandable disappointment. Only experience in human dealings can break these illusions, which is necessary if you want to delve into what the occult implies. Which is to determine the reality of the world we occupy.

Additionally, all occult groups find this dearth of human ability a plague to membership - THEM, IoT, ONA, even Freemasonry which has over 20,000 lodges globally, have lamented the difficulty in finding new recruits and neophytes. My Temple is a home for many around the globe who contribute to the collective work of THEM but in supra solidarity, or remotely, where we each practice our own way, with a similar overarching goal to venerate THEM. This is partly for their security since magic can result in grave consequences in some countries, but also because magic doesn't require physical proximity either. In ISS, actions speak louder than words. THEM is now 20 years old so perseverance is also key.

This whole set of experiences, THEM, the ASoV, ONA et al simply combined to teach me that a lot of magic and its practice and its practitioners are premised on very fragile footing. Yet, because of that disillusion, I have developed my interest with Magico-Politics, Forms and Forces. Which I believe, do, have immense power to change things.

That said, I have worked with multiple companions in various magickal settings/paradigms and it is possible to find those willing to participate or lead, which makes them all the more valuable when you do. The means to find them is to ask for them - as you have done here, but more often than not, it happens organically without expecting it. In my experience, I happen to meet someone, and it goes that way, or we strike up a conversation about occult matters, that leads to meeting and so on. Since our Idealism of what an experience will be like, and the experience itself can differ - every such meeting is a teaching momento.

*'The Troubles' by the Temple of THEM, Corpus Themeticum 2.0
-
and 'Dargonfod' by the 9AO.
 
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Accipeveldare

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Go to the girly witch tok markets i meet alot of magical artisans and other practitioners at those. Its usually a lot of crystals and witchy tea blends but I can usually find stuff I like and its how I get connected with my local occult community. I'll run into everything from new age reiki healers to hardcore traditional grimoirists at them.
At times, I walk into those things and think to myself "What a fiasco". However, you are correct. There are occasionally that handfull of practitioners that are there for the artisan stuff and not just as an excuse to look "witchy"
Post automatically merged:

One of my biggest obstacles over the years was meeting people who are very vocal about their practice, their high status, their skills, but who insist they can't teach anything without my making a huge commitment to "apprentice" or serve them in some way, and who over time then show themselves to just be deeply unethical and basically... just hot messes. And they get the most basic things wrong - and I'm not talking about things that might be a difference in path, but in basic knowledge like which sign is a fire sign, which seems to be pretty universal across all paths.

It has left me frustrated and with a deep mistrust that all of this is just fake nonsense used by abusers and manipulators. I very much want to find people who I can respect AND who know about this stuff, but I have no idea how to do that, and my concerns themselves now seem to offend.

How did other people get past this?
Most people who are truly a serious practitioner dont make it obvious. Or, if they do, they dont usually look open to conversation about it. So, to answer your question, the best way to find one is to find the subtle signs. Usually, they will look like they are in their own world.
Post automatically merged:

Hello~ The frustration you feel is in its own right an initiation into the honest truth of the occult. There is a lot of glamour, pretense and posturing - making claims that cannot be substantiated about magical prowess, and when tested, fall dismally flat. I began my occult journey at 12, (I'm now 47) and have spoken online or interacted offline with a lot of people who have made a lot of claims. This includes in other spheres of life as well. My reply here is based on direct experiences.

In Australia, August 2014, I launched the Australian Satanic Organization of Victoria (ASoV) which intended to be an operating satanic group that would give each member a turn to choose a location to run an event and practice their own form of Satanism. Thus, moving through the experiences they desired to have, so they could evolve beyond them. I went to meet face-to-face and interview about 25 or so adherents who claimed to want to be part of our 'Nexion' and ended up with 6 possible attendees. It took us three years to have six 'Meets' during which the failings of some individuals to organise even the basic skeleton of a camping trip alone that facilitates the environment for occult teaching or ritual practices - became abundantly clear. (If you cannot organise a camping trip many people manage just fine, should you be calling for Thor to possess you?)

Of all of those online calling for something like the ASoV to be created offline, none came forth to make it happen, so I had to make it happen myself. Naturally, this was criticized ;) Of those that clamoured to be part online, most were deluded or unsuited offline. Of those that made it through, it was an oft-painful ride. We completed a Black Mass at Mount Franklin (which intelligence agencies love to crow about), but it was arduous going just to prepare the ASoV enough for that. And all of those Meets, were simply basic tests to determine who I could work with - that was not for me the actual magic but a means to find people to do genuine magic with. The ASoV, was handed over to WHC in 2017, and I left it, as I did not see a group with which I felt comfortable doing sincere ritual magick, but the experiences had were very informative for my understanding of group dynamics and the claims/limitations of human beings. Nonetheless, each of those involved also came away with a rich experience to dwell upon as a means to change them.

I also called out the O9A (Order of Nine Angles) when over time I found them far less than the 'Grand Masters' they purported to be and akin to spiteful children* - and spent decades investigating the claims of the Septenary Tradition. Seeing these 'masters' differently was ultimately more valuable than entertaining their claims as masters, and the journey to analyse the Septenary Tradition, more valuable than the conclusions I drew. Often, it's about the journey not the destination, and if you can learn to love the journey more than the destination, that's a great magic trick in its own right. I emphasise, decades, as my commitment to ONA (not the O9A) still stands, so I know the feeling of dedication to an Oz only to feel the chagrin when seeing behind the curtain what one has been worshipping. ONA has had multiple leadership groups (DM/RM). As has O9A (JS/JH). As ONA does now (BX/M). And my commitment was to the philosophy more than many of the people. It's complicated.

The world, and not just the occult, is full of fake nonsense by abusers and manipulators - but determining who they are is itself a skill required to develop, that can only be developed through interactions with them. I used to have a saying about how to test a person: 'you have to fight alongside them, fight with them, and get them drunk' to see what kind of character they really have. In fighting with them you know their convictions, in fighting with them you know their level of spite, and in getting them drunk you see them without many inhibitions that the conscious mind uses to control our perception of who they are.

But technology helps disguise things, no different to ancient illusionists using sleight of hand to grift, just more widespread and in the hands of many more who can pretend to be whoever they want to be. This happens offline too, and face-to-face is no determination of being able to discern the truth we think we can, because if they can fool us online then they may be able to fool us in person which only proves their magic is in fact, successful, even if it's not the kind we expected. Whereupon I can cite the existence of Government and the State and the Institutions that prop up the world as it appears. Testing people is one way to reveal what they can actually do vs. what they say they can do, yes. But the better approach is to constantly test ourselves. Dealing with the human condition of waiting to be impressed and disappointed when you are not, is not just owing to the actions of others - but to us, too, and suggests analysing where that expectation we expect has been constructed.

You are certainly not alone in wondering about the veracity of occult practitioners. How to get past human nature itself seemingly designed to deceive (others and oneself) in order to gain or protect the ego from a reality it doesn't want to face? I don't think you can, human beings are adept liars, but this in itself is an important discovery. Disillusion is a part of the Occult - the hidden - because it indicates the Illusions you had, have fractured. Which in itself is a good thing, for self-respect and self-preservation as being Cynical is a valuable trait to have in dealing with human beings, let alone one's claiming to have magickal powers. In 30 something years, I've never seen a human being demonstrate magic in the form of ESP, levitation, reiki and a dizzying list of other crafts, nor gain Immortality as so many seem to be seeking but therein lies prickly philosophy of definition - as people do cause change depending on their recklessness, delusion or simple interaction with things. Simply by being who they are and doing what they do has effects, intended or unintended, and whether that is magic or not should remain an open question.

So, I feel, the truth of the matter is, what you are seeing is more accurately how it is, and that can be depressing when you realise the facts behind the glamour. It is my view, that in speaking about it, what you want, putting yourself out there, like this, like you have, that Synchronicity, will guide you to someone (or guide someone to you) who you can work with. Though often, that guidance will take you back to yourself after some experiences which consolidate your understandable disappointment. Only experience in human dealings can break these illusions, which is necessary if you want to delve into what the occult implies. Which is to determine the reality of the world we occupy.

Additionally, all occult groups find this dearth of human ability a plague to membership - THEM, IoT, ONA, even Freemasonry which has over 20,000 lodges globally, have lamented the difficulty in finding new recruits and neophytes. My Temple is a home for many around the globe who contribute to the collective work of THEM but in supra solidarity, or remotely, where we each practice our own way, with a similar overarching goal to venerate THEM. This is partly for their security since magic can result in grave consequences in some countries, but also because magic doesn't require physical proximity either. In ISS, actions speak louder than words. THEM is now 20 years old so perseverance is also key.

This whole set of experiences, THEM, the ASoV, ONA et al simply combined to teach me that a lot of magic and its practice and its practitioners are premised on very fragile footing. Yet, because of that disillusion, I have developed my interest with Magico-Politics, Forms and Forces. Which I believe, do, have immense power to change things.

That said, I have worked with multiple companions in various magickal settings/paradigms and it is possible to find those willing to participate or lead, which makes them all the more valuable when you do. The means to find them is to ask for them - as you have done here, but more often than not, it happens organically without expecting it. In my experience, I happen to meet someone, and it goes that way, or we strike up a conversation about occult matters, that leads to meeting and so on. Since our Idealism of what an experience will be like, and the experience itself can differ - every such meeting is a teaching momento.

*'The Troubles' by the Temple of THEM, Corpus Themeticum 2.0
Hey! I often test people the same way, well without alcohol though. If i want to know someones true colors, I often invite them to have a LOT of weed with me.
 
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Rynnshng

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At times, I walk into those things and think to myself "What a fiasco". However, you are correct. There are occasionally that handfull of practitioners that are there for the artisan stuff and not just as an excuse to look "witchy"
Post automatically merged:


Most people who are truly a serious practitioner dont make it obvious. Or, if they do, they dont usually look open to conversation about it. So, to answer your question, the best way to find one is to find the subtle signs. Usually, they will look like they are in their own world.
Post automatically merged:


Hey! I often test people the same way, well without alcohol though. If i want to know someones true colors, I often invite them to have a LOT of weed with me.
Unfortunately, even these methods do not clearly convey the interior character of a human being. After all, some are adept shapeshifters, and viewpoints and intentions change as time goes by, the instructive example of the ONA being infiltrated by the O9A is a classic - where trusted masters occupying influential seats for decades turned out to be paid FBI informants. I reiterate this frequently because of the catastrophic damage such deception caused to thousands of lives and hundreds of thousands by association. The moral of the story, you can trust people, but never completely in every situation, and it pays to always be mindful that people are shapeshifters, some capable of terrific deceit. That is the premise of all humans from the CIA, Mossad, FSB - to International Politics and Foreign Policy in Realism - to children and teenagers (and prison inmates) the world over swearing they did not steal the cookie from the cookie jar. And, even the human beings you trust most can surprise you.
 
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Check out your local occult supply shops, or their online presence if they have one. The one I live near has a meeting space in the back of the shop and groups meet there and hold rituals/events/etc, and if they don't the people who work there are probably pretty clued into the nearby scene
 
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I'll second a lot of what's been said already - local occult shops, or even shops in lager cities might know a few people in your area and you can start from there. If you have some local herbalist shops, crystal shops, or anything that's a bit more "fringe" it's a starting point.

Other options include reddit, as much as I hate to admit that. Some of the larger occult communities will have someone local to you.

It's also worth searching local language forums, in addition to facebook. If you find people looking for witchest, fortune tellers, etc., it can be a starting point. Mastadon is also fairly heavily used by Germans it seems. That might be more tech-oriented people, but worth a look.
 
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